Daniel 7:13-14

 
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Father_of_five



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
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Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:39 pm    Post subject: Daniel 7:13-14 Reply with quote

Quote:
Daniel 7
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


Steve,

I was listening to your tapes today on Daniel Chapter 7. You mention that you believe that this describes a view from heaven when Jesus ascended into heaven after his resurrection. You mentioned that it is a view that is not widely held. I just wanted you to know that I have always held this view. It is the only view that seems to fit with everything else. It is always encouraging to have others whom you respect "on the same page" (lol). I have been blessed emmensly by your teaching. Keep up the good work.

Todd
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Damon



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Carmel, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Todd!

I thought I would post something interesting regarding Daniel 7, as I'm pretty sure that most people don't quite grasp the symbolism of it.

We have the following symbolic elements in this chapter:

1. The "four winds" or "four spirits"
2. The "great sea"
3. The earth
4. Beasts
5. Horns

The only way to properly understand Daniel 7 is to look at it from the perspective of Creation. Believe it or not, every single one of the above elements goes straight back to Creation, including "horns." (Look at Psalm 148 which talks about Creation themes and also mentions the "horn" of God's people.)

1. The "four winds" or "four spirits" are the four archangels of God. (In Hebrew, "wind" and "spirit" come from the same word, ruach.) The Exodus account - which has many strong parallels to Creation - features an "east wind" which separates the waters of the Red Sea and causes dry land to appear. Compare Genesis 1:9-10. In Psalm 18:10 we see the Lord "riding upon a cherub" flying upon "the wings of the wind." This is Jesus flying on a winged archangel who appears in this instance as a pegasus horse.

2. The "great sea" is the primordial waters from which all of Creation arose. Compare Genesis 1:1-2 and 9-10. Rising up out of the sea is symbolic of the principle of "something created from nothing." In this case, it represents the greatest overcomer there is - but unfortunately that's only true from a military perspective and not from a character perspective. In other words, these were four warrior kings/kingdoms.

3. The earth symbolizes, not the whole planet, but specifically the Land of Promise. In the Creation account, this was the land of Eden (with the Garden of Eden towards the east of the land of Eden, where the presence of God, the King of the Universe, dwelt). Later, the Land of Promise became the land of Israel (with Jerusalem, whence the king ruled, as its capital). Technically speaking, the land of Israel extends from the Nile to the Euphrates (Gen. 15:18 ), so it actually encompassed the four kingdoms referred to in Daniel 7.

4. God first created the beasts of the earth before He created man. Symbolically, this is paralleled with all of the nations of the earth coming into existence before the nation of Israel. The beasts represent the Gentile nations of the earth. To be a beast, as opposed to a man, simply means to act on instinct and according to one's base desires instead of consciously acting in love. When God punished Nebuchadnezzar by taking away the spirit in man from him for seven years, Nebuchadnezzar then knew that God was the ultimate authority and not he. God "gave a man's heart" (Dan. 7:4) to Nebuchadnezzar by putting him in a trial for the purpose of learning how to act in love instead of coming from selfish desires and pride.

5. Horns are also referred to in the bible as "glory." The "glory" of a nation is its king.

To summarize this chapter without the obscure symbolism, we have four kingdoms which will arise within the boundaries of the land of Israel. In the spirit realm, this is reflected by the four archangels striving against four demonic powers who are influencing these four kings. (Compare Zech. 1:18-21; the four horns are the four kings, and also the four demonic powers influencing them. The four carpenters are the four archangels.) Each of these four kingdoms is led by a very strong warrior-king. The fourth beast which "broke in pieces" and "stamped the remnant with its feet" is referring to the worst kind of genocidal violence stemming from implacable hatred. In other words, the kind of hatred the terrorists have for their enemies today. The fourth kingdom within the boundaries of Israel would contain ten powerful kings. However, another king would arise who would blaspheme God and put the saints through such terrible conditions that they would grow weary and, were it not for supernatural endurance from God, give up the faith. This would last for three and a half "times" - specifically identifying this period as the Great Tribulation of Daniel 12:1 and of Revelation.

It's after all of this that the Kingdom - specifically of Israel - would be given to the saints in perpetuity. In other words, it's not primarily referring to a spiritual Kingdom, but to a physical one, simply because the other four kingdoms were all physical kingdoms.

In this respect, Daniel 7:13 could very easily be referring to Jesus' ascension. However, Daniel 7:14, while it has spiritually come to pass, has not yet physically come to pass, and that's the primary aspect of this chapter.

Anyway, those are my thoughts...

Damon
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Father_of_five



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon wrote:
In this respect, Daniel 7:13 could very easily be referring to Jesus' ascension. However, Daniel 7:14, while it has spiritually come to pass, has not yet physically come to pass, and that's the primary aspect of this chapter.


Damon,

You covered a lot of ground. I won't comment of most of it as it is mostly off my original topic. In reference to Daniel 7:13-14 I am a firm believer that Jesus' Kingdom is spiritual and he will never set up an earthly kingdom. He himself said, "my Kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36) and "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21). His Kingdom was set up as a result of his victory over death and Satan at the cross and will be delivered up to God upon Jesus second coming (1 Cor 15:24).

Much of Jesus teaching dealt with the Kingdom of God and the subject matter was always about relationships - our relationship to God and our relationship to others and how we should treat one another with charity.

Another verse which refers to the existence of the Kingdom in Paul's time was Colossians 1:13.

Quote:
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


That's the way I see it. Thanks for your thoughts.

Todd
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Damon



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Carmel, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Todd.

Just be aware that the passages you quoted can be interpreted in more than one way. For instance, John 18:36 could be interpreted as, "My Kingdom is not of this age." Luke 17:21 could be interpreted as, "The Kingdom of God is among you."

As far as the whole concept of the Kingdom goes, couldn't it be both physical and spiritual? Does it have to be exclusively one or the other? Does the bible prove it to be exclusively one or the other?

Anyway, I'm just trying to get you to think and not take things for granted. Wink

Damon
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Allyn



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just be aware that the passages you quoted can be interpreted in more than one way. For instance, John 18:36 could be interpreted as, "My Kingdom is not of this age."


36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Looking at the rest of the verse I think tells us that the kingdom is definitely from somewhere other than this world. World being a place would match His clarification of that by use of the word place in the last sentence. Age is not a place in the normal sense of the word.
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