Rebuking the devil/binding the devil

 
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MLH



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: Rebuking the devil/binding the devil Reply with quote

I was raised to believe ( charismatic church) that when the devil started
harassing you, you would rebuke him in the name of Jesus each time.....
Alot of the time it was like a truck rolling down a hill, I would rebuke the
truck and it was suppose to stop...( ha?)

I heard Steve G. on his program the other day explaining resisting
the devil. Steve mentioned that when we resist satan we are actually
resisting the temptation that he is putting in our minds...Personally,
when I resist the temptation to have anger, I am then resisting satan in the name of Jesus. Not hollering at him with O results! This is not scriptual.

Steve, thanks for explaining this it has so ministered to me and I feel set free.
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TK



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with you MLH, when the devil is harassing us personally. But what do we do when he is after somebody else? or a ministry? I cant resist someone else's temptation.

i am interested in hearing some thoughts on this.

TK
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Steve



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that resisting the devil takes-on as many forms as the devil's work takes-on. That is, the devil has a broad agenda in the world, the fulfilling of which involves many activities--personal temptation, deception, condemnation, discouragement of God's people, demon possession, systemic corruption of the church and of societies, promotion of strife among brethren, war among nations, etc.

The command to "resist the devil", in James 4:7, is followed by "and he will flee from you"--suggesting that it is the devil's personal attacks on the individual that are primarily in view in the passage. However, our resistance of the devil's personal attacks against ourselves is simply one aspect of our larger resistance to everything the devil is doing in our world. Personal defense against the devil's attacks is the starting point of our warfare, since we can do nothing beyond this if we fail at this point (just as a soldier can not be useful in taking ground from the enemy if he himself is shot, captured, won over to the enemy's side--or otherwise taken out of commission).

Therefore, I think, James 4:7 (and 1 Peter 5:9) addresses the matter of winning your personal war against Satan over your soul. But the task of resisting Satan, in the larger campaign, involves many other activities. Here is a partial list:

To resist the devil's lies and deception, we pray, then preach and defend the truth (John 8:31-32/ 2 Tim.2:24-26);

To resist discouragement, we pray and counsel (ourselves and others) with the promises of God (Ps.42:11/ Heb.12:12-13);

To resist cases of demon possession, we pray, then confront and exorcise the demons, in Jesus' name (Mark 16:17/ Luke 10:19-20);

To resist corruption in the church, we pray, then take a stand for righteousness, and practice church discipline (Rom.16:17, 20/ 1 Cor.5);

To resist the progressive corruption of the culture, we pray, rear godly offspring, and promote godly morality (Matt.5:13-16/ Mal.2:14-15/ Ps.127:3-5);

To resist war, we pray and seek to be peacemakers (Matt.5:9);

To resist division among brethren, we pray and promote reconciliation ( 2 Cor.2:10-11);

To resist condemnation, we pray, appeal to the blood of the Lamb (Rev.12:11) and minister grace (Eph.4:29);

etc., etc., etc.

Each of these activities (and indeed any activity that promotes the progress of the Kingdom of God in this present world) is an aspect of "resisting the devil." Most of them have nothing to do with "rebuking the devil" (the notable exception being when we are confronting the demon-possessed). Talking to the devil does not appear to have been a regular activity of Jesus or the apostles.
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TK



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 699
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, Steve. Thanks! This list (although i realize you did not intend it to be exhaustive) will be great to print and stick to the fridge.

TK
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Paidion



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much, Steve. I have copied this, intending to send it to some of my Christian friends ---- crediting you as the compiler of these ways of resisting Satan, of course
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"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
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Rick_C



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this is off topic or not . . . .

James 3:1-18, ESV wrote:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. 3 If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. 4 Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.

How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.


According to James, Christians can "say things (curse)" and be under a demonic inspiration from Hell while doing it! I've never heard this being preached or taught!

I do know that in the first century and ff. that some Jews believed there were literally thousands of spirits, both good and evil, that surrounded everyone: that people were open to their influence(s) at all times.

Speaking for myself, and not necessarily being theologically-correct; I admit that I have spoken words from Hell under demonic influence ... since being a Christian. Of course, I had to repent with all my heart to God immediately! (I said these things "under my breath" and didn't have to repent toward "that person") . . . .

I think we may have soteriological categories that limit us in seeing the truth. We believe we are indwelt by the Spirit, and rightly so (as Jesus and Paul taught). Yet here Brother James informs us that we can curse and be just as "Hellish" as any other (non-Christian) human being! While one might believe "Christians can't be demon possessed (or oppressed or overly infuenced or whatever)"; according to James we (Christians) can, effectively, be under a demonic influence from Hell!

When I said those things the theological categories seemed N/A (I was in the REAL WORLD at the time, lol). Me? Inspired by demons and speaking under their influence as a Christian? Surely that can't be! But, Oh Yes, I WAS! (imo, and apparently so in the educated & inspired opinion of: James the Brother of Jesus)!
Thanx,
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Rick_C



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the devil didn't like that last post of mine. That is, if he read it. I know one thing though. The devil can't try "theological categories" to trick me! "But Rick, you aren't all that bad. I mean, doesn't the doctrine of pneumatology teach that you are "sealed by the Holy Spirit?" My reply ran something like, "No, thanx, Mr. Satan. You should know by now I'm not a Calvinist! Come back later with something better. Oh, and by the way, The LORD rebuke you!"

the above, somewhat satirical but fairly close to things I was thinking
____________________________________________________________________

Anyway, getting back to the topic of rebuking the devil: I've been in charismatic/pentecostal circles, though mostly a long time ago, and sort of got involved with the "rebuke the devil" phenomena. I never bought into its extremes and noticed, like MLH, that the truck was still coming down the hill. Sometimes Plain ol' REALITY has a unique way of quelling heresy, if you see what I'm sayin, lol

In one of Steve's lectures he talks about how Michael, the Archangel, when disputing with the devil over the corspe of Moses (see Jude 9); how this mighty angel said, "The LORD rebuke you!" ... and if God's mightiest angel had to invoke the LORD Himself for this; shouldn't we?

Steve's point here, if I'm not mistaken was ... you don't say "I" rebuke you, devil." Since hearing that lecture some time back I have had one or two occasions to simply say, "The LORD rebuke you!"

And believe me when I say, "It worked!"
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Paidion



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to James, Christians can "say things (curse)" and be under a demonic inspiration from Hell while doing it! I've never heard this being preached or taught!


I see no indication that James is saying anything at all about Christians in the passage you quoted. When James said, "With [the tongue] we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so," the "we" may not refer to "we Christians" but used in the wider sense of "we human beings". Secondly, his use of "brothers" may refer to his fellow Jews from the dispersion to whom he wrote, rather than to his Christian brothers.

Certainly disciples (or true Christians) can curse others, but do they continue to do this as a practice? The apostle John said "no". For John, the practice of sin was an indication that one was not a child of God:

Beloved, we are Godís children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God commits sin; for Godís nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother. I John 3:2-10
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Rick_C



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

Paidion wrote:
I see no indication that James is saying anything at all about Christians in the passage you quoted. When James said, "With [the tongue] we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so," the "we" may not refer to "we Christians" but used in the wider sense of "we human beings". Secondly, his use of "brothers" may refer to his fellow Jews from the dispersion to whom he wrote, rather than to his Christian brothers.

Certainly disciples (or true Christians) can curse others, but do they continue to do this as a practice? The apostle John said "no". For John, the practice of sin was an indication that one was not a child of God


Agreed, on John and "habitual sin(ning)" as the Greek brings out.
Agreed, "brothers" can sometimes refer to non-believing Jews though it is rare (and I can't think of another incident in NT offhand, perhaps Jesus' brothers before believing?).

Re: James
The book is generally accepted as being addressed to Jewish-Christians. While it certainly wouldn't be limited to believers, the consensus is that Jewish-Christians were the primary (targeted) recipients.

If "Lord" here refers to Jesus alone, James is addressing Jewish-Christians (believers). Put another way, if James meant two Persons with: "our Lord [Jesus] and [God, our] Father" the passage was intended for believers.

If James was writing to Jews generally, having both believers and unbelievers in mind, "our Lord and Father" would be Yahweh (the One Person Deity). I doubt this "unitarian" interpretation based on the "binitarian" character of early Christian devotion as seen in Paul. The earliest Christians were binitarian as opposed to the strict monotheism of other (most?) forms of Judaism. I know scholars are divided on the meaning of ""our Lord and Father". I lean toward the binitarian interpretation (Jesus and God the Father).
Paul, I Co 8:6, NIV wrote:
"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Not to go off into a detailed early Christology now. But we see in Paul (above) that he had two distinct divinities in mind with his use of "Lord (Jesus Christ)" and "God, the Father". What James meant, I don't know (I lean toward binitarian but am not 100% sure).

Back on topic, I'm exegetically unconvinced that James shifts back and forth between believers and non-believers. It's difficult to imagine James giving some kind of generic teaching, intentionally separating the Lord Jesus Christ from it (as in something along the lines of say, the Pope talking with Muslims and Jews about "God"). I suppose it is possible but difficult to envision James would do it on purpose. Tradition does say that James was held in high esteem among all of the Jewish people till the time of his death. It also reports him as always confessing the Lord Jesus and this was the cause of his death (martyrdom, 62AD)

I still think James teaches Christians can speak evil (curse) while being under direct demonic influence/inspiration from hell.

At any rate, Paidion, thanx for your reply and do you have any other reasons why you feel the passage isn't addressed to Christans specifically? I realize there may no ultimate proof either way . . . .
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