The Woman on the Beast

 
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Ely



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: The Woman on the Beast Reply with quote

Who do you guys think is being referred to in this vision, and why?
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roblaine



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I come from a Historicist point of view. I believe that Rome is the Beast and that the woman is the Roman Cathlic Church.

Robin
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Paidion



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a futurist, I think the woman represents a revived Roman empire which will again rule the world in the future. This World Government will be in power for a short time. World trade will flow easily. Rebellion will be quashed by the World Government. This period of peace is represented by the first white horse of Revelation. But it will be short-lived, due to inefficiency.

So it will be divided into 10 kingdoms that will begin to rule the world in harmony with each other. But that doesn't last long either. The "red horse" appears, a symbol of internal struggle and war. 3 of the kingdoms rebel against the others, and are defeated. Now the power resided in the 7. But an 8th kingdom is formed headed by Antichrist or "the beast". He will hate the woman (that is, the World Governmental system administrated by the co-operating 7 kingdoms. Eventually by performing great wonders and gaining the adulation of the world, he becomes world ruler himself.

When the 7th "trumpet" sounds, a white horse representing Christ appears. This symbolized the second coming of Christ. At that time, "The kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdom of God and His Christ, permanently."
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STEVE7150



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who do you guys think is being referred to in this vision, and why?


I think the beast is Islam since it comes out of a pit and in the OT the lands that went into the pit are now muslim. I think the women is Israel and the beast desires to devour her.
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STEVE7150



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to mention i think the false prophet is Muhammid.
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roblaine



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would add to my reasoning for the beast being Rome and the Woman being the Catholic Church and specifically the Papal system.

I believe the seven heads are seven hills and seven kings. We know that Rome is the city on seven hills, and has experience types of Governments.
(Kings, consuls, dictators, triumvirs, tribunes, emperors, and popes)

Revelation 17:4-6
17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
17:5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement


The description of the woman seems to describe the Pope, being dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with precious stones. We have all seen the luxury of the Vatican and the Pope himself. We certainly know that the pope was responsible for the blood of the saints through the dark ages.

I also believe that the false prophet could be the Jesuits.
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Truthseeker



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: The book of Revelation Reply with quote

Must agree with Rob and Paidion-
Along these lines it comes to mind that the Pope is called the Vicar of Rome. Vicar-for vicarious or standing in place of the Christ. A very interesting title.
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sab



Joined: 15 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

I wrote a bit about this on a thread called "babylon" in here awhile ago.

About it being the papacy... it says in 7 places that it's a city. (16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 18:16, 18:18, 18:19 and 18:21)

I used to think it was Rome - but I was puzzled about the verse in Rev 17:16 that said the kings hated her and were going to burn her and the verse in chapter 18:9 that said they would weep and lament when they saw the smoke of her burning. How could they both fit?

About 10 years ago I typed "seven hills" into the 'search' option of my encyclopedia - fully expecting Rome to come up - it did - but so did Istanbul. I thought, "funny... I wonder why." It was the beginning of a small revolution in my thinking. Istanbul is Constantinople - Constantine's city. I don't think I need to tell you what he did to the church (I've seen some of your other posts).

Anyway Constantinople was built on 7 hills too. Over the years I collected more data about this city. She was the capital of the Roman Empire - called New Rome. Constantine moved the capital from Rome. Rome declined in the 4th and 5th centuries while Constantinople became very rich. She was called the "Queen of cities", her markets were filled with gold, silver, ivories, enamels, precious stones, slaves, oil, wheat, silk, spices, precious woods... Bronze doors from Constantinople were exported all over Europe. The people in her dominions spoke many languages - Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Armenian as well as others. She was the most besieged city in history. The Latin church came to hate her - their hatred simmered for centuries. (the beast and the 10 horns would hate her) She was attacked by the Beast and the 10 horns in 1204 - the fourth crusade - The historian Gibbon says she was left naked and desolate.

The Greeks got the city back from the Latins after about 50 years but she was weakened. (much of her wealth had been stripped off and carried to western Europe - to enrich Venice, Milan, Paris etc)
Then in 1453 the Ottomans got her - they breached the walls with massive cannons (Rev 9:17,1Cool and slaughtered the inhabitants - who were trusting in their idols to save them. Then the pope and the kings of the earth were weeping and wailing over her fall - Babylon is fallen, is fallen. They were terrified that nothing would stop the Turks now - they saw Constantinople as a bulwark against the Ottoman Empire.

Now she's called Istanbul. In the last few years there have been a couple of articles in national Geographics about the earthquake risk there. "Istanbul - City on Edge - Braces for the Next Big Quake". She's built just 15 miles from the North Anatolian fault line and scientists say it's only a matter of time before she gets dropped into the Marmara. (Rev 18:21)

She (thanks to Constantine) was the source (mother) of the flood of paganism that came into the church in the fourth century. - the cup she gave to the world was this unholy mix of Mystery Religion and Christianity.

... It took about 20 years for the pieces of this puzzle to come together in my head. But I'm pretty sure the woman riding the beast is Constantinople.

A fascinating topic -

and by the way - any map of Istanbul clearly shows the city is divided into three parts. (Rev 16:19)
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