Rev 20 - the "first resurrection" and the "li

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Family Bible Fellowship Forum Index -> The Book of Revelation
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Father_of_five



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:47 am    Post subject: Rev 20 - the "first resurrection" and the "li Reply with quote

Steve,

I just listened to the second half of your lesson on Rev 20. It was excellent! We agree so much that I think you have been reading my notes (lol) Very Happy . I do have a couple of comments regarding the "First Resurrection" and the "little season".

First Resurrection
I believe that the First Resurrection is referring to the resurrection of Christ. Jesus is described as being the "first begotten of the dead" (Rev 1:5). You are correct in that it refers to our conversion - notice the wording in Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection....". The key words here are "hath part". We have part in Christ's resurrection through our conversion and rebirth and is very well depicted through Baptism in that we are buried with Christ and raised with him. Thus having part in His resurrection. Praise God!

Loosed a little season
You point out very well that Satan is bound in that he has lost the ability to deceive as he once had. This is due to the fact that Christ has delivered the Gospel to the saints through his Holy Spirit; whereby we are also sealed unto the day of redemption. I believe this is the same seal that is mentioned in Rev 20:3. I have given the "little season" some thought and believe it may refer to the deception of Satan that there is actually going to be a battle. Satan gathers them together for a battle that never happens because they are all just devoured by fire from heaven. After all, the victory was already won at the cross. We don't know, but perhaps Satan takes credit for the resurrection of the wicked and mobilizes them into an army only to be wiped out. I believe the deception must be after the resurrection of all the dead because verse 7 says that Satan is loosed after the thousand years are expired. He is loosed just like all the wicked are resurrected. Maybe Satan tells them, "See, we have been resurrected just like the righteous. Now lets go defeat them." What a great deception that would be.

Thanks again for your great teaching and I look forward to any feedback you may have on my comments.

Todd

Very Happy


Last edited by Father_of_five on Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your insights. I think you may be right with reference to the first resurrection. Your analysis makes good sense.

As for the little season at the end, I have difficulty placing the resurrection at the beginning of that season, since a general resurrection is described at the end of it (Rev.20:13), and I am inclined to believe that all the dead rise at once (John 5:28-29). I see the second coming (and attendant resurrection of all the dead) at the end, not of the thousand years exactly, but at the end of the little season after the thousand years, in Revelation 20:9 (compare 2 Thess.1:8).

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate your insights and the evidence of unfettered thinking reflected in your suggestions. God bless.
_________________
In Jesus,
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Steve



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Todd,
While I do see verses like Revelation 12:10; Colossians 1:13; 2:15; and Hebrews 2:14 as correlative to the victory of Christ over Satan at the cross, and thus relevant to the matter of the binding of Satan in Revelation 20, I don't think the latter is making exactly the same point. You are right that the other passages talk about the limitations placed upon Satan with reference to his activity in the realm of accusing the brethren before God, but the binding in Revelation 20:1-3 speaks of limiting Satan's ability to deceive the nations (vv.3, 8), which I take to be a somewhat different activity.

As I understand it, Satan had unhindered and unchallenged ability to keep the nations (Gentiles) in darkness, ignorance and deception, prior to the time of Christ. This cake walk was severely interrupted by Christ's commissioning His disciples to go and preach to every creature, and to make disciples of every nation, teaching them to observe His comands (Mark 16:15/Matt.28:18-20).

For the first time, Satan's monopoly on the minds of the heathen was broken, and everywhere the Gospel has been preached throughout the world, the result has been the begrudged, but inevitable, surrender of territory by Satan and the conversion of his former loyalists to serve the cause of Christ (e.g. 1 Thess.1:9). Satan has been unable to prevent the advance and progress of the kingdom of God, despite his best efforts to persecute and deceive. In this impotence, Satan has resembled a chained dragon, or a strong man bound and rendered incapable of resisting the stronger man who is plundering his house (Matt.12:29).

Now the "loosing" of Satan at the end for a "little while" (Rev.20:3, 7) would seem to represent a reversal of this situation. It is not a reversal of any of the benefits of Christ's atonement (which could never be reversed or repealed), but of the church's effectiveness and success in converting sinners, and delivering them from Satan's deception. That is, I anticipate the final season of history to be marked by greater deception of the world, a reduction in the church's ability to convert people, and (probably) global persecution of Christians.

It seems to me that such a situation is most likely to occur in a "post-Christian" world. In much of the world today, the Gospel is still moving forward and gaining great victories. This is primarily in the heretofore unevangelized sectors of the globe. However, we can see, in places like Europe and North America, the effects of post-Christian culture on evangelistic success. Though some are still joining churches in these geographical regions, relatively few are really being converted.

Churches that are growing, usually, are doing so by siphening off members from other churches. Getting people to even listen to the Gospel or to tolerate a Christian's opinion is increasingly difficult in the formerly "Christian" world, probably because the average sinner in America considers that Christianity has been tried and found wanting (when, in fact, it has only been found inconvenient, and not tried). Sinners now seem less concerned about their souls (and less inclined to look to the church for answers when they are concerned) than previously.

We may yet see another great revival in the West, if God is gracious to us and answers my prayers, but it will probably be because America will have progressed beyond its post-Christian phase into a new pagan or secular (and essentially pre-Christian) generation. I don't mean to sound like I know any of this. It's just my assessment.

In any case, I think the unprecedented resistance of the whole world to the Gospel in some future time, after it has all been evangelized for some time, and after the Gospel begins to be universally taken for granted (as is the case in this land), is likely to be the scenario that is depicted by the loosing of Satan for a "little while." Let us hope it will be only a very little while.
_________________
In Jesus,
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Father_of_five



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve wrote:
Hi Todd,
While I do see verses like Revelation 12:10; Colossians 1:13; 2:15; and Hebrews 2:14 as correlative to the victory of Christ over Satan at the cross, and thus relevant to the matter of the binding of Satan in Revelation 20, I don't think the latter is making exactly the same point. You are right that the other passages talk about the limitations placed upon Satan with reference to his activity in the realm of accusing the brethren before God, but the binding in Revelation 20:1-3 speaks of limiting Satan's ability to deceive the nations (vv.3, 8), which I take to be a somewhat different activity.


Thanks, Steve

Your very thorough explanation makes sense. I appreciate you taking the time to contribute to this forum as well as making your recordings available online. I will be listening.

Todd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sean



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 640
Location: Smithton, IL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The post above is a good reason why joining as a member should be a requirement before posting. Otherwise, unfortunately, it gets abused.
_________________
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Steve



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the person who posted that nonsense posts similar ones in five or six categories of this forum overnight. I find them in the morning and usually delete them all. Sometimes one gets by me. I know very little about the internet and about the technical aspects of moderating the forum. If there is some way to limit or eliminate this nonsense, I would be glad to know.
_________________
In Jesus,
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Allyn



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, its pretty hard to keep some of the unwanted and unrelated posts out of a forum. If you have full administrative powers you should be able to see the IP address that this individual has come in on. Each computer is assigned an IP address by the ISP (Internet Service Provider). However there are ways to change the IP address, it is usually a task. So, if you do have full powers you can ban this person by copy and paste his IP address into the banning area of the Admin. Site.

Since an IP address is apt to vary slightly sometimes, then ban him 3 ways.
    put in the whole address such as 166.345.24.222

    next, put in the same address on the next line like this: 166.345.24.*

    lastly do it one more time like this: 166.345.*.*


What happens here is that the * is used as a wild card to eliminate the chanches that this person will be able to come in under a varied IP address.
All this depends on the hope that this board uses the uniform construction that other boards do.
_________________
http://www.PreteristVoice.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 37
Location: McMinnville

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion Allyn. The poker promoter (via ip) is ban from the site. I forgot I could get the ip from the post directly.
_________________
Grace and peace in Christ,
John

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Rom 8:14
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Family Bible Fellowship Forum Index -> The Book of Revelation All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

BlueSilver_C 1.00 Theme was programmed by DEVPPL JavaScript Forum
Images were made by DEVPPL Flash Games