The first law or a strong warning?

 
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Jim



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Albany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: The first law or a strong warning? Reply with quote

Looking at Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

It appears at first glance to be the first law, but is it? It appears like a strong warning from a loving father. It would be like me telling a child do not touch that stove because if you do you will be burned. It looks to me that God was telling Adam if you choose the tree of knowledge you will lose life. It appears to me Adam choose seperation from God, the giver life, to have knowledge. Adam choose mortality over the life given by God. We, because of adams choice, are born mortal and seperated from God the giver of life.
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PAULESPINO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,
Quote:
It appears at first glance to be the first law, but is it? It appears like a strong warning from a loving father


I think law and warning are synonymous with each other.

The law contains warning. Even if we consider this to be a law I don't think that this will cause a problem in the scripture
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darin-houston



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where did this come from? This evil? Obviously, God created it!


I like how Steve puts it -- God didn't "create evil" because evil isn't a "thing" that was created. Things or decisions are evil or good but evil isn't something tangible that was created.
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Paidion



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 944
Location: Chapple, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think the tree of knowledge of good and evil was intrinsically bad.
Indeed, I think God put the tree in the Garden with the intent that Adam and Eve would eat from it when they had matured. But, although fully adult physically, they were immature, and were not yet ready for such knowledge. So God forbade them to eat from it.

God also placed the tree of life in the garden. They were not forbidden to eat from that tree. Yet, it seems that they did not eat from it --- or they would have lived for ever. But after they ate from the forbidden tree, God drove them from the garden so that they would not eat from the tree of life and live for ever.

Here is my view in a nutshell:

God's plan was for them to mature and eat from the tree of life, and then allow them to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Actually it is intrinsically good to have a knowledge of good and evil so that one can distinguish between the two. Without this ability, would we have a conscience?

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their faculties trained by practice to distinguish good from evil.

Satan, as usual, gets people to do things in an order which is different from that which God requires. Satan had them eat from the tree of knowledge first. Then he would have been delighted if they had then eaten from the tree of life and lived for ever as rebels against God.
But God graciously prevented that from happening by driving them out of the Garden.
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Jim



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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Location: Albany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmatic wrote:
Jim, Just trying to consider your question, I realized that God had pronounced everything He had created 'good'. This would include the "tree" of the knowledge of good and "evil". Where did this come from? This evil? Obviously, God created it! But what was it? This evil?

any thoughts? Any ideas as to what this "tree" was?, Or, what did it symbolize? It was "good", but what does the term "knowledge of good and evil" mean, as it relates to a tree?

peace, dmatic


You are correct imo that the tree was actually good. I think the problem was that Adam wasn't spiritually mature or ready to eat of the tree at that time. imo God said don't eat from this tree from a fatherly point of view to protect adam in his innocence until he was ready. Kind of like what we do with children on many subjects.
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darin-houston



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
God also placed the tree of life in the garden. They were not forbidden to eat from that tree. Yet, it seems that they did not eat from it --- or they would have lived for ever. But after they ate from the forbidden tree, God drove them from the garden so that they would not eat from the tree of life and live for ever.


I always assumed that the tree of life was eaten continuously in order to keep them alive and that it was by removing them from access to the tree that they would not live forever. I have trouble seeing this as literal historic and am inclined to see it as metaphor for fellowship with Christ, however, particularly as it returns in the New Creation. The angels, in a sense maintain the separation.

However, I'm not against seeing other aspects of the Eden story as literal historic, and am quite willing to see even the trees as physical reality, but don't see the need to do so necessarily.
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Paidion



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Chapple, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darin wrote:
I always assumed that the tree of life was eaten continuously in order to keep them alive and that it was by removing them from access to the tree that they would not live forever.


Well, let's see how the text reads:

And Yahweh God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." Genesis 2:16,17

What this passage tells me is that in the day that they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (whether that tree was literal or figurative), the death process would begin in them. "In the day that you eat from it you shall die." The future of their death ---- future from the day in which they ate from the tree, was sure to take place.

Then Yahweh God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" — therefore Yahweh God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. Genesis 3:22-24

In spite of the fact that the death process was started in Adam and Eve, yet they would live forever if they ate from the tree of life, and so Yahweh God prevented them from doing so.

Quote:
However:
I have trouble seeing this as literal historic and am inclined to see it as metaphor for fellowship with Christ, however, particularly as it returns in the New Creation.


It is a popular idea in our day to see eating from the tree of life as a metaphor for imbibing the life of Christ, and eating from the tree of knowledge as imbibing "man's" knowledge. However, I don't think the idea entered the mind of Moses or the writers of the story tradition on which Moses drew. Also, it was not just the tree of general knowledge, but the tree of moral knowledge.

I will continue to take the story as literal historic until I have sufficient reason to think otherwise.
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