What woud you ask?

 
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brody_in_ga



Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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Location: Richland Ga

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: What woud you ask? Reply with quote

I am about to enter into the "question and answer" portion of the debate I am currently involved in on the cessation of the Holy Spirit gifts.

What questions would you ask my friend who is the cessationist?
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TK



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about:

is everyone who speaks in tongues today a liar, or demon possessed, or both?

TK
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Allyn



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would ask what inspired recordings do we have today from our present day that say that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit today and not a collective desire of some to mimic the experience originally intended for building faith within the growing maturity of the church of the first century. ( I thought you needed the other sides input Laughing )
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TK



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if allyn's question is asked, it makes me wonder why Paul talked about praying in a tongue (to be done privately) and how this (since done privately) would strengthen the faith of early converts (since they wouldnt see or hear it done, if Paul's instructions are followed). paul specifically said that a person who prays in a tongue privately edifies himself, not others.

TK
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Allyn



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TK wrote:
if allyn's question is asked, it makes me wonder why Paul talked about praying in a tongue (to be done privately) and how this (since done privately) would strengthen the faith of early converts (since they wouldnt see or hear it done, if Paul's instructions are followed). paul specifically said that a person who prays in a tongue privately edifies himself, not others.

TK


That's a good point, TK. In my opinion it a shame that this is not observed today. If it was then this would never be an issue because no one would know the other is practicing this manifestation. Likewise we find the same to be done when praying to the Father because it too is to be done in private but we have corporate praying going on in every church today.

But yet the fact remains that speaking in tongues was practiced in the early church and required an interpreter but must never contradict the Word of God. Today the interpretations and even prophecies are a contradiction many times and the hears are oblivious to this fact and exhalt the speaker for having such a gift.
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TK



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hear you allen, and agree.

TK
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Allyn



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brody,
So far I have read the debate up through post #18. I have a few responses that may appear to side with Ben, but these are only thoughts for now. Since I have not yet read your arguement I will only have this to work with. The following are what you said to Ben amd these are what I may say if I were Ben.

Quote:
Such is a very important point! And a point that must be taken into consideration. Paul wrote that the Corinthians "should come short in no gift awaiting the return of Christ"(1 Cor 1:7)..Seems he expected the Corinthian church to be "coveting the best gifts"(1 Cor 14) until the second coming, or there deaths. I see no reason from scripture that we should not expect the same.


Brody, do you feel that the second coming of Christ is the same event as the Corinthians awaiting the return of Christ? I ask this because no where in Scripture do we find the term second coming of Christ. We do find however "His coming again" and many many passages that talk of a time of Christ's coming. I believe that many of these refer to the time when finally the end of the Jewish age ends and the Church age realizes its fullness. (what do you think)

Quote:
Ben does not realize that he has "shot himself in the theological foot" by his above admission. And heres how: Why would anyone have to test a spirit or a miracle to see if it is of God, when God no longer allows miracles or anything of the sort?! Why should we do anything other than just reject them flat out? The notion that one has to test anything implies the fact that there will be some or many that are indeed legit.


Here is why; because since many even today believe that these miraculous gifts are for the church throughout all ages and if they not all are, then it is very important that this testing be put to use. If, for example there is no longer the miracle of healing then when someone declares they can heal, that spirit needs to be tested.

Quote:
Your above is self refuting. For why would one needed to be tested if there are none around today? For example, why would one issue a test to see if John F Kennedy could out run Ben Baptized?


Sorry Brody, but this is not a good arguement in your favor. If one claims to be John F Kennedy and says he can out run Ben - wouldn't that be a call to test the spirits?

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I thought it might be interesting to read your response.
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Allyn



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just now finished reading the entire debate. It seems from post 19 on it is mostly whether or not there are two categories seperating the continued gifts from the ones that have ceased. I offer up this by first quoting my brother in Christ, Brody:

Quote:
Care to show where the gifts are divided into 2 categories? Natural, and supernatural? Please give one reference, and I will throw up my hands now, and say you won the debate.


I think it can be found here:

1 Cor. 13: 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

I believe the perfect has come. I believe it is everything the Church needs to continue functioning throughout the generations. At one time it was required to introduce those spectacular gifts of prophecying, tongues and knowledge, but now for the continuation of the Church, it is maintained because of the written Word. Nothing more can be said that has not already been said. Our Bible is complete.
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